From the page:
-- Switzerland, the depositary state for the Geneva Conventions, said on Tuesday Israel had broken humanitarian law by inflicting "collective punishment" on Palestinians after an Israeli soldier was captured by militants. --
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From the page:
-- Switzerland, the depositary state for the Geneva Conventions, said on Tuesday Israel had broken humanitarian law by inflicting "collective punishment" on Palestinians after an Israeli soldier was captured by militants. --
I'd be more convinced by the "collective punishment" argument if there were any evidence at all that any Palestinians strongly oppose the Qassam missile fire on Sderot and kidnap of cpl Shalit, the events which provoked the Israeli response. They march to protest Israeli military action or cartoons about prophets but no protests about their own terrorists' actions. Such evidence as there is seems to indicate they support them.
Israel is overreacting which is what the terrorists were trying to achieve.
However no-one is helping the situation by criticising Israel's overreaction without also strongly condemning the deliberate provocation which gave rise to it. The latter is the root cause of the problem; and stems from many Palestinians' inability to come to terms with the fact that the clock cannot be turned back 58 years.
"Collective punishment" isn't about overreacting. It's punishing a group of people for the crimes of one person in that group. Completely seperate issue.
one person in that group
This is not a maverick working on their own and against the wishes of the many.
So now that they are confirmed war criminals we can now get Palestinians to start actions in the Hague. The Israeli's have finally made the stupidest mistake they could have made. The Hamas group has complied with the Geneva conventions with their POW and they are not signature-ee's to it. Israel is however an they have deliberately defied the agreement. There excuse is Lies about home made rockets and a massive Tank armada to rescue a soldier. I wonder what the Jerusalem Post will have for their weekly Lie this week.
When that soldier turns up dead you're really going to be able to put a foot in your mouth.
Switzerland is being anti-semetic
This is pure nonsense! Criticising Israel has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Nothing at all!
Would criticism of Italy mean that I am anti-pope or would criticism of the USA mean that I am anti-democracy?
I you really think so - get your brain fixed.
I am very proud, that our Bundesrat (one member out of seven of the federal council of Switzerland) Micheline Calmy-Rey criticises everyone who fu--s something up. She does not care if it is the almighty USA, China or Israel or whoever. This is what the world needs: boys and girls with big dicks, making themselves heard!
Its the Qassam sky rocket Crisis Hamas has illegal fire works
Too bad this bit of news is going to go unnoticed by the majority of America.
Too bad the majority of America would be wholly unable to discover the affected region on a map, let alone comprehend even the basics of why the two groups are constantly at eachother's throats.
Worst of all, the lack of understanding will only serve to foster and sustain biggoted opinions about both groups...
They are not "anti-semitic", but it is astonishing that they critiscize Isreal yet have not for Hamas, you know the people that kidnapped the soldier?
But of course there is no double standard.
Any moral high ground Israel had on this issue, they Blew Up with the power supply on the Gazza Strip.
First: the kidnapping or killing of a human beeing is always a shame.
The question is: is it right to revenge a death with a thousand deaths or with the humiliation of even more humans?
If you answer this question with yes - you are no better than the guys who are responsible for this shame and therefore help making mankind look like a bunch of braindead idiots.
Every time someone criticizes the actions of Israel, the standard protocol has been to accuse them of "antisemitism". It is unfortunate, and especially ironic to be coming from Israel considering their history and what they are doing to the Palestinians.
The comment by "Saeed" is a perfect example of this, attempting to skirt any honest debate about the merits of this issue. The kidnapping is truly a tragic situation, but there is global consensus that collective punishment of people is wrong, and to argue otherwise is to say that Israel is above the law.
The problem that Israel faces is the Palestinians creating a democratically elected government capable of negotiating a fair peace settlement. I believe they're intention is to unilaterally draw borders and decide the fate of Palestinians. Therfore every provocation by militants have led to Israel destroying government assets of the Palestinians, while knowing full well that they cannot fully control the actions of the militants.
My knee jerk reaction on this issue is been that the palestinian leadership have led their people down the road and deserve whatever they get ....
Myself and many here have made the point that the palestinian civilians elected and generally support Hamas.
but i support the Swiss view that the collective punishment is uncalled for especially since approximately 50% of the palestinians are children.
Even an angry stone throwing 16 year old child deserves protection. And those younger? A tragedy.
Who knows how to solve this mess, but one thing is clear, violence breeds violence.
Being an Amerikan of the Hebraic persuasion, I of course want to support Israel all that I can. Having said that, the current escalation by Olmert is utterly insane. Israel's strategy under its past PM was heavy handed and inhumane . Forcing people to live in bombed out ghettos is just plain hypocritical to the existence of the state of Israel. The current path that the Jewish state is taking is very dangerous, and I hope that others will join me in asking Israel to reexamine their stance to the Palestinians. The current policy is just.. in a word horrible. I don't know what else to say.
Israel is not being nice to the Palestinians, but far too many Palestinians are unable to let go of the notion that the clock must be turned back 58 years and Israel removed somehow. Faced with this it is almost inevitable that Israel finds itself taking ever tougher and tougher measures to keep its civilians safe and that means hardship for the Palestinians.
I get no joy from the fact that the Palestinians live in misery, but Israel being nice to them will not change Hamas' mission in life one iota, and easing up on restrictions could endanger Israeli lives.
The key to it is to get the world community, including the arab world, to say to Hamas, look the game is up. It's too late now, Israel is here to stay. Come to terms with that and renounce publicly your commitment to destroy it.
That's where the focus needs to be. Sure you can criticise Israel but Israel could buy every Palestinian a bunch of flowers tomorrow and Hamas would still be plotting Israel's demise.
MCLiepshutz - thank you for your sensible and humane comments. My namesake Gideon Levy, an outstandingly humanitarian Israeli journalist, has communicated the same sense of outrage over the Gaza escalation in a recent issue of Haaretz. Non-violence and peace with justice and reconciliation is the only way forward.
According to top American lawyer Professor Marjorie Cohn: "Israel's brutal retaliation against Palestinian civilians constitutes collective punishment. Attacks on a civilian population as a form of collective punishment violate article 50 of the Hague Regulations", "The Fourth Geneva Convention also prohibits collective punishment. Article 33 …" and "Collective punishment is likewise forbidden by Article 75 of Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions. As four US Supreme Court justices agreed in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld last week, Article 75 is "indisputably part of the customary international law."" (see: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/8033/26/ ).
Civilized people around the world demand observance of International Law. There is also the Abrahamic Religious Law of the Mosaic Ten Commandments ("thou shall not kill" ) and the "Natural Law" ("thou shall not kill Children"). About half the civilians of the Occupied Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan Territories are Children (the post-invasion under-5 infant deaths in these Territories total 0.2, 0.4 and 1.4 million, respectively – about 90% of this carnage being avoidable and due to Israeli and Coalition violation of the Geneva and Rights of the Child Conventions (for detailed documentation see: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/533/26/ and http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/ ).
Before the Israeli invasion and bombardment of Gaza, seven (7) Occupied Palestinian children were dying avoidably every day due to Israeli violation of the above Conventions and Laws – with the destruction of half the Gaza electricity system, the daily death toll of utterly innocent Children will undoubtedly climb (a major concern of the UN, of humane people around the world – and no doubt of their utterly innocent mothers).
Those who knowingly support the mass murder of any Children in word or deed in any way are beyond the Pale - they have crossed a critical boundary in human behaviour. The hard-line Israeli Establishment is violating the greatest Jewish contribution to the world, a 3 millennium history of humanitarian thought, legislation and scholarship, from the Mosaic Ten Commandments to outstanding contemporary Jewish humanitarians such as America's Professor Noam Chomsky.
Dennis, this is not about giving flowers. It is not about granting carte blanche to terrorists, it is about collectively punishing a country for the work of a few that Hammas may or may not have any power to stop at all. Trust me, i would love to see the kidnappers of Gilad Shalith brought to justice. I dont want to see innocent children killed in the process. So answer me this.. Do you , or do you not support the killing of innocent women and children in order to free Gilad shalith? You may call it the MCLiepshutz test if you wish....:)
Of course I don't support the killing of innocent Palestinian children nor does Israel.
What is immoral is the claim by Palestinian supporters that Israel is in any way in favour of any such thing, particularly while they refuse to condemn Palestinian attacks which openly target civilian Israelis, in general including children.
My challenge is against the deliberate use of that double standard as a political tool, to score sympathy brownie points with the world media.
I am getting criticised for doing so, which I guess means people think the double standard is fine. I can keep trying to convince but if I fail I fail.
...until one side inflects enough "collective punishment" will there ever be peace...the Arab`s of the region only have themselves to blame....for this could have been dealt with,many,many years ago if they had wanted as such....they only want the destruction of Israel...so be it...when the young solders body shows up I`ll wait and see if the same collective demand those responsible be brought to justice...or as has been the norm,just give lip surface to the idea of peace and justice....its way past time Israel remove those that hide among women and children....cowards..... for its they that are the true criminals...
Violence by either side is wrong, deplorable and counterproductive. Peace with justice and reconcilation is the only way forward.
The "true criminals" and "cowards" are the illegal Occupiers who are violating International Conventions - Humanitarian Law - and are responsible (either actively or passively) for the mass mortality of utterly innocent infants - the post-invasion under-5 infant mortality in the Occupied Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan Territories totals (so far) 0.2, 0.4 and 1.4 million, respectively (about 90% avoidable and due to Occupier non-provision of the life-sustaining requisites demanded of Occupiers by the Geneva Convention).
As long as Israel and the US-led Coalition are permitted - by racist, lying Mainstream media and apathetic voters - to ignore the Geneva Convention, utterly innocent infants will continue to die at the rate of about 0.5 million per year (1,300 per day, 1 per minute) (see the latest UNICEF data: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/index.html ).
On this day of all days (US Independence Day) we should remember that "all men are created equal ...and have an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - and that includes about 30 million utterly innocent Children under Israeli or Coalition guns in the Occupied Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan Territories and dying at appalling rates in what must be described as "passive genocide" by their callous and demonstrably racist Occupiers.
You seem to have forgotten Darfur, or much of Africa for that matter.
Or do those not count?
Matt Kennedy: thank you for implicitly raising avoidable death in Darfur and the rest of Africa and also for implicitly raising the general question of the value of human life .
To put the tragedy in those lands in context simply consider the following shocking "annual under-5 infant death rate" figures (UN Population Division; estimates for 2003): over 0.33% (cruelly ignored Indigenous Australians i.e. Australian Aborigines), 0.51% (Occupied Palestinian Territories under 4 decades of illegal Israeli rule i.e. Indigenous Palestinians), 0.66% ("free" i.e. US-dominated Latin America and Caribbean), 1.88% (the non-European World), 1.99% (ex-British South Asia), 2.0% (Sudan, wherein the Darfur atrocity is still continuing), 2.7% (US-occupied Iraq), 3.90% (First World-crippled non-Arab Africa), 5.7% (US-occupied Afghanistan) - as compared to: 0.07% (Singapore; the best in the world), 0.1% (White Australia), 0.12% (Israel), 0.15% (UK) and 0.17% (US and Communist Cuba).
In answer to your question, of course they count. Silence kills and silence is complicity. Decent people are inescapable obliged to inform everyone about man-made avoidable mass mortality and gross abuses of human rights. The Horrendous South Asian figures show that the aftermath of prolonged, violent colonial occupation is as deadly as war. The annual global avoidable mortality and under-5 infant mortality total 16.0 and 10.6 million, respectively (44,000 and 29,000, respectively, DAILY) (see: http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/ ).
It can be estimated that (together with goodwill, high literacy and good governance) a properly distributed $1.4 trillion annually (a mere 2.5% of world annual production) would eliminate global avoidable mortality. By way of comparison, it has been estimated that Israel has cost the US about $2.6 trillion since 1956; the Iraq War has committed the US to costs totalling $1-2 trillion (according to American Professor Joseph Stiglitz, Economics Nobel Laureate); and the annual global market value of EACH of the following 5 DELETERIOUS items is about $1 trillion: military expenditure, tobacco, alcohol, illicit drugs and unhealthy processed food.
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